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Gay marriage bomb

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  • SPIRITLED469

    March 17, 2017

    God call homosexuality an abomination and has never recanted from that. I would say that is pretty clear.

    Up until 1995 the American Psycholical Association called Homesexuality a preversion. Once they reclassified it as alternative, then began the rest of the actions.

    To compare an abomination to various ethnicities or non common social norms (extreme age difference in marriage) feeds right into the legitmizing of gross sin as alternative.

    [Mod edit: Off topic]

    April 9, 2018 updated by CMATCH

  • April 11, 2017

    Thanks for your opinion ERAY but I wish you had shown your basis for it.
    Artificial Birth control was understood (by the church) to be thwarting the will of God. Thats a historical fact. THe church has limited their objection today to killing of the unborn ( sometimes).

    You claim with God there is "One human race" this is laughable considering God spent so much effort seperating his Choosen from everyone else and condemning those who strayed from it.
    Your "one human race" phrase is a prime example of your use of modern jargon rather than provide scripture (dealing with marriage not fellowship) to help instruct.

    XRAY948 wrote:

    Good question, but every time things look grim, there always appears to be a faithful remnant. We see this even in the days of Noah and Jeremiah.

    This is ambiguous, so it depends on what you mean here. Birth control is a problem when it involves the murder of the unborn (i.e. abortion). There's nothing morally wrong with avoiding a pregnancy altogether to plan things out and prepare, or because a couple does not wish to (or physically can't) have children. None of the Apostles ever got married or had children, for example. Neither did Jesus.

    That is the Church's mistake for adopting an unbiblical position. First, the Bible teaches that there's only one race -the human race- because we're all decendants of Adam and Eve, the first human couple, and eventually Noah and his family after the Flood wiped things out on a global scale. Second, the N.T. mentions that Christians should avoid an "uneven yoke", i.e. should avoid getting married to non-Christians. The reason behind that 2nd one would appear to be more on the practical side, but it says nothing about 'race'. In the O.T., Jews were told not to marry people from other nations, but it was because they would drag Israel down with them in their idolatry. But if they changed, there was no problem. For example, when the Jews were preparing to conquer Jericho, Rahab (a prostitute there) helped the Israelite spies, was spared, and believed in the God of Israel. She's actually in Jesus' genealogy, which further strengthens this point.

    This seems related more to popular acceptance/opinion than to a Biblical commandment, althought leaders in the Church were indeed held to a higher standard, as explained in the N.T. When Paul talks to his gentile (i.e. non-Jewish) audience, he mentions that leaders needed to be 'blameless', 'the husband of one wife' (my emphasis), and several other things. In the case you point out above, it seems like back then people were at least more consistent. A large portion of the Church has lost its saltiness, but there're still ministries that have not.

  • SUCELL553

    April 12, 2017

    Hi, everyone...

    So maybe i'm straying a little bit from the original topic of this forum but this sentences really called my attention..

    DANIEL071 wrote:

    You claim with God there is "One human race" this is laughable considering God spent so much effort seperating his Choosen from everyone else and condemning those who strayed from it.

    There's only one human race.

    Moab was one of the nation that was always against Israel and God wanted his people to be as far from their as they could. BUT Ruth's (a woman from Moab) decendants were included in Jesus's bloodline.... There's a teaching there. a very important one. it's not about your nation or statues or color. it was her decition: "your God will be my God". what actually made the difference. Not many women are named on that geneology as this was not a costume of the time, BUT she was.

    For reference i recommend to read the whole book of Ruth as is a book that talk about redemption and compassion. and Mattew 1:1-5.

    April 12, 2017 updated by SUCELL553

  • MAUREEN313

    April 28, 2017

    Gay marriage is demonic, anything that seems right is wrong. God himself condemns it will should not try to justify ourselves because we r not of d world. Recall d story of Sodom and Gomorrah, if God did not approve it then e won't now. So every Adam(man) should find  their Eva because it is a good thing for a MAN to leave is father and mother and cling to his WIFE.

  • ARBOL373

    May 18, 2017

    Yes! Say it out LOUD! Homosexuality is an abomination and you do not need to believe in God to appreciate that, although with a firm spiritual foundation, the conviction is stronger and with eternal basis and affirmation!

    May you all never deviate from the God-ordained design of ONE MAN to ONE WOMAN! May God bless you all - the fruitfulness of your wombs and that of your loins! Let your descendants praise the name of Jehovah forever, for indeed, there is none besides HIM who is worthy of the praise, worship and adoration of the whole universe.

    May peace be with you all! Amen!

  • JAPHETH368

    June 15, 2017

    During my time in Bible college our Dean revealed to a student that the spirit of homosexuality is after him. He received this revelation from God since the Dean never knew the student had this struggle. This was more of warning from God. This student had never indulged in homosexuality but had thought about and watched pornography of the same.

    You see Daniel, homosexuality is a sexual pervertion sin like addiction to pornograpy, sex and wild orgies and many people struggle with these thorns of the flesh as Paul refered to them. The good news is that God through the Holy spirit can help us overcome these addictions. This young student received the warning and revelation from the Lord and today he is free.

    Daniel if you give yourself to Christ you will understand why God forbids gay marriage. The laws of God are not to burden us rather to free us to live a fulfilled life because He loves us and knows what is good for us and what is not. Ours is to yield, I pray that you receive this revelation.

  • June 15, 2017

    Hi DANIEL071,

    I now realize that I had misunderstood your original post. I actually thought you were concerned about the church straying away from Biblical teachings.

    But now I realize that when you said "Interacial relationships historically has been understood by the church to be outside of Gods natural order until recently [...] How long before the church again adjusts its view point to allign [sic] with the world?" you were actually advocating for the church to adopt racist views and implying that the church(es) that rejected those views were "wrong" and were aligning themselves "with the world"(?) The fact is that the opposite is true; they were abandoning an inherently unbiblical view of human beings...

    My responses are in-line.

    DANIEL071> Thanks for your opinion ERAY [sic] but I wish you had shown your basis for it.

    The topics under discussion were assumed to be common knowledge, so I didn't anticipate I'd need to defend them as if I were debating a skeptic. What specific topic did I mention and/or what exact comment(s) did I make that go beyond what can be reasonably considered to be "common knowledge"? Again, be specific.

    DANIEL071> Artificial Birth control was understood (by the church) to be thwarting the will of God.

    So? People sometimes claim things that are different to what the Bible says. What does that prove? It's your individual responsibility to double-check, like the Bereans did in Acts 17 when Paul was preaching Jesus to them.

    God in the Bible does not condemn and/or punish people who choose to not have children[1]. (The method by which someone chooses to avoid conceiving a child (e.g. contraceptive, natural cycle, abstinence, etc.) is irrelevant to the point[2].) Neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever got married or had children, either. Would you claim they were "thwarting the will of God"? It'd be absurd, but you'd have to, if you want to be consistent...

    For someone who complained that I did not "show [my] basis for it", you've not bothered to document the Biblical basis (i.e. actual references) for the claim(s) that choosing to not have children is equivalent to "thwarting the will of God". The least you could do is hold yourself to the same standard that you're trying to set for others.

    [1] The only example you could probably cite is Onan being killed by God (Genesis 38:9), but even that would not help you. Onan was killed by God for refusing to perform his familiar duty towards the widow of his late brother, not because he didn't want to have children. (For more, you should read carm.org/why-did-god-kill-man- ... his-seed-ground)

    [2] Here I mean methods that do not result in murder (i.e. an abortion).

    DANIEL071> Thats a historical fact.

    Even if it is (which, BTW, you have failed to document), it's not relevant.

    DANIEL071> THe church has limited their objection today to killing of the unborn ( sometimes).

    The church and the people in it are not always consistent in their beliefs and/or behaviors. We all fail to live up to God's standard in some ways. However, that's not an excuse. The standard of behavior is Jesus and his revelation in the Bible, not the church and the people that happen to be in it, which may or may not really be Christians.

    DANIEL071> You claim with God there is "One human race"

    This can be easily proved with a bit of simple logical deduction:

    1. God created the first human being, Adam, in his image and likeness[1,2]
    2. God created the first woman, Eve, from Adam's side[3]
    3. It follows that Eve is also made in God's image and likeness.

    Proof #1: The first man and woman were both made in God's image and likeness.

    Being the first human couple, they're the only existing representatives of the one and only human race at this point. Continuing:

    1. Adam and Eve had many sons and daughters.[4]
    2. God's image and likeness given to Adam/Eve is "passed down" from parents to their children.[5]
    3. It follows that all human beings are made in God's image like their parents.

    Proof #2: Children are as human as their parents and are also made in God's image/likeness.

    Continuing:

    1. God destroyed all human beings, animals, etc, in a global Flood, except for Noah, his family (8 persons in total), and everything else inside the Ark[6]
    2. After the Flood, God blessed Noah, his family, etc, and told them to "fill the earth"[7]
    3. Nations, groups, and clans[8] were formed from Noah's descendants, and later had different languages[9]
    4. It follows that all the different groups of people (i.e. nations, clans, groups) formed after the Flood, originating with Noah and his family.

    Proof #3: All people groups regardless of nation and/or language are decendants of Noah and, therefore, members of the same human race as their ancestors.

    Continuing:

    1. Only a single language used to exist and everyone used it.[10]
    2. People disobeyed God's command to "fill the earth"[11]
    3. God "confused" (i.e. changed) their languages at Babel and caused them to spread around the earth.[12]

    Proof #4: People speaking different languages in different nations/regions is traced back to God's intervention at Babel.

    If you've followed this so far and can put "two and two" together, you should easily see that there's no Biblical basis to claim that there're different "races" of human beings. There're groups from different nations/geographies, languages, skin colors, cultural backgrounds, and so on, but they're all members of the same human race and their ancestry goes back to Noah and, ultimately, Adam.

    If you want to claim that there're several different "races" of human beings, I can't stop you, but any reasonably objective observer should be able to see that the Biblical basis for there being only one human race is fairly straightforward.

    [1] "Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness." (Gen. 1:26)

    [2] "the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature" (Gen 2:7)

    [3] "And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man." (Gen 2:22)

    [4] "The days of Adam after he fathered Seth were 800 years; and he had other sons and daughters." (Gen. 5:4)

    [5] "When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth." (Gen. 5:3)

    [6] See Genesis chapters 5-9 for the account of Adam's descendants, the Flood in the days of Noah, and so on.

    [7] "And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth." (Gen. 9:1)

    [8] See chrono-genealogy in Genesis 5 (descendants from Adam to Noah), Genesis 10 (nations descended from Noah).

    [9] "From these the coastland peoples spread in their lands, each with his own language, by their clans, in their nations." (Gen. 10:5)

    [10] "Now the whole earth had one language and the same words." (Gen. 11:1) Note that this says the whole earth had one language because it covers before/after details of the summary provided in chapter 10, similar to how Genesis 2 goes into the details of Day 6 of the entire week summarized in Genesis 1. In any case, it's a different topic.

    [11] "Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.”" (Gen. 11:4)

    [12] "Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.” So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth." (Gen. 11:7-9)

    DANIEL071> this is laughable

    So, you do appeals to ridicule in an attept to get others to accept your fact-free comments. Not sure why you'd expect a logical fallacy to work. If there's a next time, you should consider using accurate Biblical references and logic instead...

    (cont...)

    June 16, 2017 updated by XRAY948

  • June 15, 2017

    (...cont)

    DANIEL071> considering God spent so much effort seperating his Choosen from everyone else and condemning those who strayed from it.

    Firstly, God chose Israel, but Israel is a nation, not a "race". I would've thought that someone your age (53, at the time of this writing), would've understood this basic distinction a long time ago.

    Secondly, God condemed immoral/sinful behavior. In fact, God explicitly tells Israel why he didn't want them inter-marrying people from neighboring nations:

    "You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly [...] For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth" (Deuteronomy 7:3-4,6; my emphasis)

    God explains why he's prohibiting this, and it has nothing to do with avoiding "inter-racial" marriages and everything to do with protecting Israel from temptation/sin (i.e. serving other gods), which would cause God to punish them for it.

    I won't go into any more details of why God wanted the Israelites to be set apart, but suffice it to say that Exodus 19:6 makes this explicitly clear when God is talking to Moses: "you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel."

    DANIEL071> Your "one human race" phrase is a prime example of your use of modern jargon

    You say that as if using common and contemporary language were somehow a "bad" thing, while at the same time using contemporary language yourself. You're just applying a double-standard here. Besides, were you expecting anyone today to say something using words and the meanings they had hundreds or even thousands of years ago?...

    DANIEL071> rather than provide scripture (dealing with marriage not fellowship) to help instruct.

    Double-standard again. For someone who complains about others not using "scripture to help instruct", you've certainly provided zero Biblical support/references and/or reasoning to substantiate your claims.

    In addition, given that this is a Christian forum and all, it was not unreasonable to assume that most people would be somewhat familiar with what's generally considered to be "common knowledge" in most places.

    Finally, in your original post, you compare/mix homosexuality -an actual sin, as the Bible documents repeatedly- with the inherently racist idea of "inter-racial" marriages -already shown to be an unbiblical and nonsensical absurdity.

    I don't know why anyone would insist in promoting the view that accepting "inter-racial" marriages is somehow comparable to accepting homosexuality. It has never been wrong, inappropriate, and/or sinful for people of different skin colors, and/or other trivial details, to be together, get married, etc. There's no Biblical basis for that assertion, even if some (not all) churches had accepted similar views at some point in their history, and a significant amount to the opposite: there's only the human race -that's it. I hope you'll reconcider.

    Best regards.

    June 16, 2017 updated by XRAY948

  • ROBERT125

    July 5, 2017

    Why all the back and forth on such topics?  The scriptures are clear that we should work out our own salvation with the Lord, with fear and trembling, for it is God who gives us the desire and ability to do His good will.  Even Peter was told not to call unclean what Christ Jesus had called clean. So, it's best to leave such matters as interacial marriage to God and not be so quick to make assumptions according to the flesh.  Our convictions should line up with God's understanding and wisdome and that can only happen through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

    So, if there are questions of morality, doctrine, or Godly Convictions, ask God, who gives to those who unwaver in their trust in Him very liberally.  As for as the lifestyle of homosexuality, of course it is wrong, and it is obviously a sin. But the bigger picture is that God reveal this to the person who is in bondage to this sin of sexuality.  Sin, itself, is not what keeps a person out of heaven. For the scriptures also tell us that "love", a biblical definition of God in I John, will cover the multitudes of sin.  What keeps a person out of heaven is not accepting the Lord Christ Jesus' offer of salvation and forgiveness of those sins.  As Christians, let's focus on our calling of being salt and light in this world.

  • EMMA851

    July 6, 2017

    Ok here's my slant on this

    My daughter 22 is a lesbian living with her partner they have talked about getting married

    My daughter became a Christian as a child and at 16 went away from God into this realationship

    I'm praying she will come bk to God and re comit her life again

    Iv not rejected my daughter but choose to love  her unconditionally yes I disagree with this relationship but believing in faith this will be dissolved ????????

  • July 29, 2017

    ROBERT125> Why all the back and forth on such topics?

    Because you have someone else making the demonstrably false claim that the Bible prohibits "inter-racial" marriages (i.e. implying it's sinful), and claiming that the Christians were not only "wrong" in allowing it, but actually "aligning" themselves "with the world".

    In addition, it carries the implicit assumption that there're different "races" of human beings (an inherently racist idea itself), which is also demonstrably false. I took the time to refute those assertions to demonstrate that they're indeed false, which tends to take more time/effort than making baseless fact-free assertions.

    You're, presumably, familiar with 2 Corinthians 10:5, right?

    ROBERT125> it's best to leave such matters as interacial marriage to God [...]

    It's precisely this absurd "why can't we all just 'get along'?" approach and "do nothing" mentality that has made the Church and many Christians at large, generally, so innefective at pretty much anything other than feel-good sermons... rather than teaching their members how to soundly defend their own faith against critics and/or skeptics, often openly hostile, and influence the culture around it as a result; it prioritizes feelings over objective truth.

    Often, Christians are not even able to answer common (and fair) questions from skeptics such as "How do you know the Bible is true and not something else like, say, the Book of Mormon?" or "Where did Cain get his wife?".

    Instead, many never get much of a foundation, and when challenged, they mistakenly believe that the Bible has been "disproved", the Christian faith "proved false", and just end up taking the next logical step: abandon the faith.

    Consider the late Charles Templeton as one well-known example of this. Even his book, Farewell to God: My Reasons for Rejecting the Christian Faith, has this description (in Amazon):

    For more than twenty years, Charles Templeton was a major figure in the church in Canada and the United States. During the 1950s, he and Billy Graham were the two most successful exponents of mass evangelism in North America. Templeton spoke nightly to stadium crowds of up to thirty thousand people.

    However, increasing doubts about the validity of the Old Testament and the teachings of the Christian church finally brought about a crisis in his faith and in 1957 he resigned from the ministry.

    In Farewell to God, Templeton speaks out about [...] the Creation fable, racial prejudice in the Bible, the identity of Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus’ alienation from his family, the second-class status of women in the church, the mystery of evil, the illusion that prayer works, why there is suffering and death, and the loss of faith in God.

    It's obvious that he had questions/doubts that went unanswered. His good friend B. Graham had no answers for him, either (for reasons I won't go into). In Templeton's mind, the Bible's content was basically a "fable" (i.e. not really true). So, he left. Even Paul acknowledges this is what we should do if Jesus had not really been raised from the dead (1 Corinthians 15:14).

    You're from the US, too; take a good long look around you, outside your church, and particularly in the culture at large and tell me how well that has worked out. Is the culture at large more Christian or less Christian than, say, 50 years ago?

    Well, here's a small sample:

    1. Roe vs Wade legalized murder of the unborn (i.e. abortions) several decades ago, and to this date over 50 Million unborn have been killed.
    2. Obergefell v. Hodges legalized same-sex "marriage" in 2015.
    3. County Clerk, Kim Davis, was jailed in 2015 (after #2) for refusing to sign a same-sex "marriage" license based on her Christian principles (exercising her Constitutionally protected religous freedom; see 1st Amendment)
    4. Removal, and even destruction[2], of the 10 Commandments from public places

    These things were completely foreign and unthinkable at the time of the founding fathers[1]. There's a lot more I could point out. So, again, how well has this "do nothing" approach of yours worked out in reality? Selah.

    The tree must be judged by its fruit and, no offense, but I'd say that approach has been a complete and utter failure.

    Paul used many war analogies to describe the nature of spiritual "battles", where Christians are the "soldiers"; what good is a group of soldiers if they run away with their tails between their legs when challenged? It simply concedes more "territory" to the enemy with no resistance from those who're supposed to be focused on their "calling of being salt and light in this world", as you say.

    Salt has several properties; it preserves, it sometimes irritates, and it definitely stings if you put it in an open wound. Light can be uncomfortable and might even burn you if you get close enough and/or it's strong enough. I don't think the Bible chose to make comparisons to light and salt without considering some of their properties and/or implications.

    Therefore, it stands to reason that, in the process of trying to be "salt" and "light", some people are going to take offense to it in one way or another. That said, I like my method of doing things more than other people's method of not doing anything.

    So, how, exactly, do you expect to do what salt is supposed to do while at the same time advocating a superfluous do-nothing "leave it to God" approach? Selah.

    "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet." Matthew 5:13

    You can't have it both ways.

    Had Paul had a "leave it to God" approach to things, he would've never done anything; he never would've challenged the Athenians when arguing at the Aeropagus, recorded in Acts 17; no misconceptions would've been corrected, no one would've been better informed, we wouldn't have had a good apologetics model to use when engaging skeptics, and ultimately, absolutely no Athenians would've been saved as a result (which some were). We wouldn't have any of his letters in the New Testament today, either...

    Paul had to present and defend the Christian faith in front of people who where uninformed about the faith and/or outright hostile to it, many of which mocked him after his previous visit. He even got arrested. This is not that different from where the culture at large is, or is heading, these days.

    Even God expected the Israelites to walk on their own two feet after splitting the sea in two to make a way of escape from the Egyptian army...

    There're some things that God has clearly left up to us (e.g. the Great Comission, to make disciples, etc.)

    [1] The founding fathers had a Christian background and principles, clearly displayed in the Declaration of Independence: "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

    [2] www.cbsnews.com/news/arkansas- ... troyed-vehicle/

    ROBERT125> and not be so quick to make assumptions according to the flesh.

    You've been very vague and generic in your comments and don't specifically mention who, exactly, you're addressing. (I did get the impression you're addressing me, which is why I'm responding.)

    That said, if you're going to go around asserting that what someone is saying is simply "assumptions according to the flesh" (i.e. implying there's no Biblical basis for it or even sinful), you actually need to demonstrate that this is the case. The least you could do is try to make some kind of reasoned argument to justify your claim. I'm not just going to "take your word for it" just because you said it, and I put this effort b/c I don't expect others to just "take my word for it" either. I try to do things in a way that they can individually verify it by themselves.

    In addition, I believe I did a fair/reasonable job at providing the Biblical basis for the points I made, and the reasoning behind it, among other things. If you want to disagree, that's fine, but don't just make a wild generic assertion; show it.

    Kind regards.

    July 29, 2017 updated by XRAY948

  • AMY478

    February 17, 2018

    2 cents here.

    1. I hate the world racist or racism because we are one race - its actually called ethnocentric ... Sorry to be a prude lol! I had too.

    2. Sodom and Gamorra like many other places in the bible ... God has a habit of effecting the landscape such as earthquakes floods etc when a place has succumb to complete sinful nature.

    February 17, 2018 updated by AMY478

  • TRAVIS343

    April 9, 2018

    Gay marriage is an abomination in God's site period bc of docterine and as for this dudes quote on the learned or the doctrinal correct has strayed from the faith we are to stay true to sound docterine I would read all of Paul's epistle to Timothy, we are called to worship in spirit and in TRUTH.

    SPIRITLED469 wrote:

    God call homosexuality an abomination and has never recanted from that. I would say that is pretty clear.

    Up until 1995 the American Psycholical Association called Homesexuality a preversion. Once they reclassified it as alternative, then began the rest of the actions.

    To compare an abomination to various ethnicities or non common social norms (extreme age difference in marriage) feeds right into the legitmizing of gross sin as alternative.

    April 9, 2018 updated by CMATCH

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